Why is there debate over when the Rapture will happen (in relation to Post, Mid, or Pre-Tribulation)?
by Rick on Friday, March 6th, 2009 | 16 Comments
Skalite asked:
What are the relevant passages to each of the 3 positions? Are they contradictory, or just unclear?
What are the relevant passages to each of the 3 positions? Are they contradictory, or just unclear?
(GIVEN: I realize the word "Rapture" does not exist within the Bible, "no one but the Father knows when the end will come", there is debate over whether or not there will even BE a Rapture, etc.
Obviously this question is meant for Rapture believers, please try to stay on topic and avoid digression into colloidal debate over semantics [realizing of course, the irony of asking you to do so when the spirit of the question is a semantic one].)
Carlos and PaulCyp, did you even READ the question? You've both failed spectacularly to even approach addressing the points of the question.
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Semantic
THE RAPTURE MEANS THAT BEFORE ANIT CHRIST COMES THERE WILL BE A RAPTURE OF ALL GODS FOLLOWERS TO HEAVEN.
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Because the “rapture” is a false doctrine invented in the early 19th Century. No Christian on earth before ever heard of such an idea before that time. And, like all the false teachings of Protestantism, it has broken down into more and more variations as the denominations themselves continue to break down into more and more unauthorized manmade churches, with more and more conflicting doctrinal beliefs. How far away from the stated will of God, “that they all may be ONE”!
Kansieo.com
it’s sort of like the “did Han Solo shoot first?” debate among SW fanatics.
some people get so wound up in mythic stories they lose track of reality.
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Traditions of men make the Word of God void.
Rev 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
You will note at the seventh trump (see I Cor.15:52) time will be no longer. This means all are in their spirit bodies and the flesh age is over.
Semantic
i had me some rapture this weekend…with my wife…well you know /wink
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There is debate because the details are lacking in the Bible.
The source of most debate is a lack of details.
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The idea of a Rapture isn’t even in the Bible, or any theological documents, teachings, or doctrines until the 19th century when John Nelson Darby introduced the idea!
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Its basically invent a concept and then people modify it. Why do you think Catholicism is so vastly more complex than most Protestant religions. If you are interested in this notion read up on what happened to a particular group of Gnostics. The group that split off from the literalists that became the Catholic church. They are enormously complex in their thinking.
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There is no Biblical reference to the rapture. Some documentary did say that in the 1800′s a woman had a vision of the rapture, and some guy wrote an annotated version of the Bible, including the idea of the rapture in the annotations, so that people wouldn’t remember if they read it in the actual Bible, or just in his comments.
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The answer was made painfully clear on December 29, 1967 and repeated June 21, 1968.
It is episode #44 of Star Trek.
The Pre-Troublation with Tribbles.
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There is a debate because no where does the Holy Spirit tell us “it’s before the Tribulation” or “it’s at the mid-point.” This leaves us to draw our own conclusion based on clues given in Scripture. While some Christians doubt there will be a Rapture at all, these are in the minority; the remainder are in one of the three categories you’ve listed.
The primary Rapture scriptures are as follows:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
John 14:3
Thessalonians 2:1
Revelation 3:10
And FYI, the word “Rapture” does appear in the Bible, but not in English translations. The word is derived from the Greek word which was translated into Latin for the Vulgate translation, as “rapturo,” which means “caught up.” This term may be found at 1 Thes. 4:17.
EDIT: to PaulCyp, you might want to look into this false conclusion further. The Rapture is alluded to in the Shephard of Hermas, which was accepted as prophecy by the early Church. It was written around 150 AD and reads in part as follows:
“Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it.”
There are other references to the Rapture in early Christian writings, as well.
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Keep the debate going, I love it when I hear adults speaking like theyre on a show called ‘kids say the darndest things.’
Semantic
Post-trib for me! Try to find anywheres in scripture where
God punished the un-belivers along with belivers “You won’t find it anywhere” There will be a tribulations period we all agree on that. Now do you think the righteous will be judge with the unrightous?
God loves you…..God bless
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to kent_shakespear,
Han Solo did shoot first. It is important, because it shows how he was utterly ruthless but was capable of change. By watering it down and making him less evil at the beginning it undermines the change in his character over the story.
So i beg to differ. It is important and worthy of discussion.
As for the Rapture I have no idea.
Happy Metta Monday.
May all be well and secure,
May all beings be happy!
_()_
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I do believe that the “Rapture” or catching away of “believers” is a biblical concept (1 Thes 5:17). Sorting out when it will take place is difficult . I do not believe it has to do with contradictory scriptures but rather with people taking one verse or another and trying to support their beliefs. Some of the misunderstanding comes from mixing terms such as “Last Trump (1 Cor 15:52), “Great Trump” (Matt 24:31), and “7th Trump” (Rev ) . The confusion between the “Last Trump” and “7th Trump” doesn’t make sense at all if one thinks about it, Paul was dead before Revelation was written and nowhere else is there a mention of 7 trumpets.
Another issue is that there appears to be “believers” here during the Tribulation. While it is possible that they become “believers”during the Tribulation many miss this and use this to argue their position that the Rapture must take place either mid or post tribulation.
There are way to many scriptures that need to be considered to begin to list all of them. Most fail to take into consideration any OT scriptures and I believe this is a big mistake. Isaiah 26:19-21, 27:13, and the book of Joel come to mind and there are probably plenty more that I have not even seen yet.
(My personal belief is pre trib.)
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Rapture happens when the prophet of God comes and announces His message ,as a result it would be a revolution ,and His message makes a turmoil in the land He appears, as many love to follow Him even though leaders of the old religion pressure the people not to follow Him or other wise will be put to persecution and executions.
Actually this rapture has already happened, in PERSIA ( now Iran) in year 1844 for few years as new Prophet of God Bab = Gate announced the End of Time,as the Day of God and unity and togetherness of mankind was declared.
But as usual it was not welcomed by the people of the last religion, which is Islam there, even though Mohammad the prophet had said in Holy Quran ,that Soon End of Time Shall come, Also Jesus talks about His return as Father at the End of Time .
If you study the life of the Bab`s and His folowers in Iran you will see the rapture that happend by their heroic actions and sacrifices they made to awaken the souls to the truth of the Bab.
So was the sound of the trumpet of the Bab in that year ,which took persia by storm. only 20,000 Babi`s gave their life to defend the truth of this new message of God ,and finally after 6 years of persecution and exile of the Bab to man remote places in persia He was killed (Martyred) same way as Jesus He was mocked ,stoned and finally 750 soliders of the king fired at Him in 9th july 1850,,,,,,,,,
As Bab had said to His unfeared believers in two of His holy books of Prsian Bayan and Arabic Bayan ( Book of announcement) , that soon in 9 years time the secound prompet shall blast in persia,,,,, whom that God shall make manifest , Bab had said will come.
Then someone from God from persia in the TITLE of BAHA`U`LLAH ,,,,,( GLORY OF GOD) 1852 ANNOUNCED HE IS THE PROMISED ONE OF ALL AGES to announce the Day of God.
AND GOD HAS CHOSEN HIM TO UNITE MANKIND, IN ONE COMMON UNDERSTANDING AND FAITH.
For humanity reach world unity and peace, and the time has come for the world to know the mysteries of the past and future through His message and guidance.
All these troubles that you see people of Iran and muslims are facing is the result of their rejections of the message of Bab and Baha`u`llah.
as they are getting older in their understanding are even ready to dystroy the world ,,,,,,started by persecuting and excecuting Babi`s and Bahai`s and still continues in there,then with the rest of the world ,,,,but they don`t know by doing all theses are bringing dystructions to themselves and Faith of Baha`u`llah would eventually understood by the rest of the people of the world,,,,,,,
As already there are 6 million Bahai`s residing in all countries of the world.
And other religions of the past have promised the same thing ,that Lord of the Host by Moses ,reincarnation of krishna, 5th Buddha ,Shah Bahram to Zoroastor, for a universal age they shall come.
As is obvious God`s plan originally has been to spread humanity to all corners of the world ,then one day as He called it End of Time was to gather humanity together, and he has said to the people of the pasr religions ,EAST and WEST shall meet in that day ,as it is clear a new teacher of God comes to unite m ankind peacefully as before.
But as Humanity is coming from age of seperation ( first cycle) is not aware of many things recorded and has appeared to man since beginning,thats why ,this is a great work to be done,as humanity is coming from age of B abyhood,with limited knowledge about what they have been waiting for.
That`s why God knew His people would not easily find Him when He appears again, as history shows people at the time of His coming as a new messenger ,always has had a different expectation than what really was meant to Happen when He comes.
So people from the age of the babyhood become unrealistic and take the book too literal as a result can not believe this new messenger, in anytime in the history of man.
they want to know Him but they take the wrong measurment as Humanity comes from age of babyhood have failed to pass on the true meanings and the true spirit of the Holy book to next generations ,this has been the problem of the past which still people are carrying it,and when ever this promised messenger has come has been persecuted and executed.
All the best ,God has blessed the world to the fulest and is asking for unity of mankind in one common understaning and univarsal standard.
To know and see by your own investigation you can look to ,,,,,
Thank you,,,,,